no time for a last thing. but i do wish you a good night. my friend is up next. you can listen to every episode of the 11th hour as a podcast.

ari melber is next. thanks for staying up late with us. welcome to the beat, i'm ari melber. we are tracking big legal developments today. the judge in florida giving trump lawyers what they waned. a big delay and a big part of his overall legal situation. and there is this continuing fallout from the damning testimony by the key witness in the new york trial. one of the most famous people in this case, stormy daniels took the stand to tell her story under oath for the first time. >> the former president coming face to face with stormy daniels. >> even the judge is pumped. he was like welcome to the stand. stormy daniels. >> stormy daniels gave a really

detailed testimony. reelly detailed. >> there have been some contentious moments as stormy daniels faces cross- examination. >> let me tell you, it is not over yet. because daniels will be back on the stand on thursday. >> true, daniels is the first eyewitness to recount trump's conduct in their encounter. that he later paid to cover up. and that's been driving headlines here. we learned much about what happened yesterday. headlines about how upset trump got. we'll get into that right now. as well as how she will be headed back to continue what has been a damning set of details with corroboration for a jury that is trying to decide in some sense who is lying. now with no cameras in court, some of what we learned about what happened inside the new york trial does come out more slowly. we have more information about a court exchange with the judge

that did not break yesterday because most reporters could not hear it. you are looking at the court sketches. it is news tonight because it only became more fully detailed in the latest court transcripts. the judge who had hammered the da's side at times yesterday, we are learning how the judge admonished trump through his lawyers and this came in a side bar that occurred during part of daniels' testimony. the judge telling trump's lawyers i understand your client trump is upset. but he is cursing audibly and he is shaking his head visually and that is contemptuous. the judge noting that kind of conduct does have the potential to intimidate the witness. and the jury can see the conduct that trump was displaying. the point here is about legal fairness. not just some abstract idea of decorum. defendants must sit silently. unless they get to the point in the trial where they choose to take the stand. they can weigh in that way.

they cannot interfere with the other witnesses on the stand or interfere with the jury's task of listening to only the witness and the evidence. this jury was trying to listen to stormy daniels. to put it simply, a fair trial is not supposed to run like a live reaction on the internet. sometimes the viewer observes that other person's reaction. sometimes it is the reactor who can matter more than the witness. now it is supposed to be in a trial you focus on listening only to the witness. if the defense perspective is raised. and that's a fair thing, trump obviously was upset by what she was saying and he had some view he wanted to share. but that is also measured through questions by the defendant's lawyer. not by cursing in court.

that did occur when trump's defense team pressed daniels on parts of her story and tried to go at her credibility. but most of the people who looked at this do note that the key things that are at issue in the trial, not everything she has ever said. but the key part of this story and the money she received has been a consistent tale. and her credibility may ultimately be as nbc put it there, a lynch pin to this case. so, daniels' testimony will continue tomorrow. and we are against the backdrop of the delay in the florida case that could go out to the election. the delay in the dc case. a lot of judges are out there clearly doing the things that fit donald trump's whole strategy of punting things out past the election. that is a problem for democracy. meanwhile in new york, we have the one trial that is on pace to get us a verdict by the election. in fact, a lot sooner than the

election. we are now bracing for the results, the verdict within roughly two to four weeks. so that is the update on that top legal story tonight. next, i want to tell you, we will turn to this year's election. and we will turn to something that i can factually stay so you right now. you will not see anywhere else tonight. it is a first time for us here at the beat as well. so i invite you to join me for that after our shortest break. i'll see you in 90 seconds. eco

most americans say they oppose biden and trump running right now. most people say if they could, they would want other choices. and yet, here we are, barreling toward a rematch of as a factual matter two fairly unpopular candidates. and that has opened at least a possible or hypothetical lane for other challengers and new questions about the strength of any independent alternatives and which party they might ultimately damage more if they are not going to win out right. and there are questions about whether there is a line at all for a candidate with one of the most famous political names out there. and, well, the least experience in government. environmental attorney robert f. kennedy jr. son of the late senator and u.s. attorney general robert f. kennedy. making his beat debut on the beat tonight. >> thanks for being here. >> thanks for having me, ari.

>> glad to have you. let's start at the beginning. if you became president, what would change in people's lives? >> our country would change a lot. what i promise to do is wind down the forever wars. which both president trump promised to do. but has not done. unwind the merger of state and corporate power. the capture of our agencies by the industries they are supposed to regulate. i would immediately address the issue of chronic disease. we have a chronic disease epidemic that is causing us $4.3 trillion a year. it is five times our military budget. i will issue an executive order that any government official that lies to the american public in conjunction with his federal duties will be

dismissed. i am going to address the issues, the control of our agricultural agencies, by the processed food companies, we now have a thousand ingredients in this country that are illegal in europe and feeding that chronic disease epidemic and i will issue an executive order. stopping the intelligence agencies from propagandizing the american public and ending censorship. any federal involvement in censorship. >> so that is a big agenda. you have never served in government. 45 of the 46 presidents have. why should you become president to run the whole government when you don't have any low level, mid level, or high level experience in the government? >> you don't need government

experience to run for president in this country under the constitution. the constitution framers anticipated that people would run who were not experienced in government. i have been around government my whole life. i would say my principle qualification is that i have litigated against almost every one of the major federal agencies i sued cdc, fda, usda, department of agriculture. the department of transportation. when you litigate against these agencies, you get a phd in corporate capture and how to unravel it. >> respectfully, that's in court. but running the whole federal government, coming in with the problems you are tee fining, having never shown through your time. not that government service. you mentioned your family. you brought up the family. everyone in your family served

in lower positions before pursuing the white house. some of them with congressional experience. running seven to 10, 15 years. you look at that and your name. and, while political dynasties run in both parties, do you think you would be doing what you are doing without your name? if you were a lawyer without the name kennedy, how would your campaign be going? >> i think i'm better qualified than anyone trained to run the government. and the reason for that is the biggest issue is the merger of state an corporate power. it feeds the war machine and the fed. the run away taxes. all of the issues. >> you have court cases on that. you have a different view of that than people. >> i am not intimidated by the agencies. that is the problem with every other politician in congress. >> i will jump in to say, there is the campaign math. this is not summer camp.

this is not a brainstorms session. you have six months to try to run to be in a position to win the electoral college. how many states are you on the ballot in right now? >> we have the signatures to get on the ballot. we are not immediately filing those for strategic reasons. >> how many states are you on the ballot right now today? >> we are on the ballot i think in two or three states. we could file tomorrow and be on the ballot in ten. >> here is my question. i have seen you talk about this. if you are not on enough ballots to mathematically be eligible to win the electoral college in enough states by election day, are you going to drop out? >> i'm going to be on the ballot in every state. >> but if you are not? >> i'm going to be on the ballot in every state by election day. i'll be on the ballot in every state by july. >> this is a big issue as you know. i want to read something. it is not for the media to say who is a spoiler or not. the whole reason i have

different people on, cornell west, a lot of trump aides, the viewer get to hear. but i want to read to you what one said about spoiler candidates. it is wrong for a third party candidate to claim there is quote no distinction between the major parties of candidates. do you understand that point, do you agree with that point? >> i agree with that point if i were the spoiler. >> i'll let you finish. as you may have intuated, i'm reading from your statement you wrote about nader. here is what you said in 2000. take a listen. >> there is a political reality here which is that his candidacy could draw enough votes in certain key states from al gore to give the entire election to george w. bush. >> i will give you time to respond but i want to be clear about this. the issue is not just whether

there is a spoiler or not. in all fairness that depends on what the voters do. you haven't spent your life as an independent third party person fighting against both parties. you don't have that track record. you have been affiliated with one major party a long time. you made that argument on behalf of the same democratic party. and only here are you saying different things about how it works. how do you respond to that? >> well i would probably say the same thing again if the phak churl issues were the same. ralph nader had no chance of winning. and we just did a poll that we did, about ten times the size of any other polls. a poll that is a $200,000 poll. we polled 26,000 people in 50

states. and what that poll shows and every other poll that has been between me and president biden and me and president trump says the same thing. every poll. when i'm pit against president biden. just me against him, i beat him in 39 states. he only wins 11 states. i dominated the electoral college. so, and when i run against president trump, i beat him in the electoral college. the same poll and most polls these days show that president biden cannot beat president trump. >> i will jump in. your argument seems to be. >> you didn't let me finish my argument. >> we are having aback and forth. you say there is a poll you are doing so great. but you are under five states ballot and most polls don't show it that way. >> you are changing the subject, ari. the question is about whether i can be on the ballot. i'm definitely going to be on the ballot.

>> if your response to the nader comparison where you attacked him as a spoiler, you say you are not a spoiler, i say you have not yet proven that. >> let me explain what is a spoiler. a spoiler is somebody who cannot win. and whose continued participation in the election will disrupt the expectations of somebody who can win. well, i can win. our polls and every other poll that has looked at head to head contests show i beat both president trump and president biden if the other guy leaves. >> you think it is a big if? you are talking the incumbent president of the united states. >> under this criteria, president biden is the spoiler. because he cannot win. he can't win if i stay in. he does worse if i leave. >> you are comparing hypothetical polls to a guy who won the presidency. yo do seem at time to be warm toward president trump.

and he is clearly warm toward you. >> i would definitely disagree with that. he just called me a radical f- ing liberal. >> he said you are a common sense guy. and you guys have exchanged warm words and you said you are proud he likes you. >> i have said good things about president biden, too. >> but here is where i'm going with the trump thing. you endorsed his opponent in 2016. >> hillary. >> right. what, since 2016, in his first term and him refusing to leaf leave office peacefully, has made you warmer toward him? can you explain that for us? >> i can explain to you i'm running against him. so obviously, i don't want him to be president of the united states and i don't think he did

a good job. if you look at my statements, i'm not mean spirited. i think president trump and president biden's administrations have been catastrophic for this country. they have run up $34 trillion debt. >> would you say roughly equally catastrophic? >> i would say they have both been catastrophic. >> similar? >> in their own way. >> here is why people. >> you are trying to get me to quantify it so you can win a debate. and i'm not going to do that. >> hold on. it's not a debating point. there's a big choice coming down and you are inserting yourself as you have to legal right to do as a candidate for office. you are someone who in all fairness was giving these speeches against nader for this kind of thing. supporting clinton against trump saying this is the danger of trump. and now, people hear you and this is a chance to talk about it. but people hear you as very similar to nader saying it is a pox on both houses. lesser of two evils.

what others call false equivalency. this is what donald trump stands for and why people hear you talk about false equivalencies. >> this is all debating tricks. >> this is not a trick. >> you are lighting fires faster than i can put them out. every single thing you say, i can answer. give me a chance. >> take a listen to this and you can have the floor. >> i will pay for the legal fees. >> very fine people. on both sides. >> these are not people. these are animals. >> stand back and standby. >> the radical left thugs that live like vermin. >> i said i want to be a dictator for one day. >> it is nice to have a strong man running the country. >> people are not concerned this is nader, 2.0, but you are losing the platform and the following you have to suggest that they are both catastrophic and they are similar and that you, they say, are ignoring not

only the policy difference, but the actual possible democracy and autocratic threat of donald trump if he wins again. perhaps thanks to you. your response? >> i never said that. so you know, like i said, i think both of them did bat things to our country. i think both of them contributed, president trump more than any president in history. coming in, promising the country that he was going to run the government like a business. he shut down every business, 3.3 million businesses, no due process. no just compensation. a violation of the constitution. he ran up an $8 trillion debt. more money he spent than every president between george washington and george w. bush. 283 years. president biden is racing to catch up with him. he has added a trillion dollars in the last hundred days. they are both catastrophic. neither of them can solve that problem. let me tell you something else

they can't do. neither of them can end the vitriol you are trying to pump upright now. >> what have i said that is vitriolic? >> what you are saying to me, i need to take a side. >> i'm asking you about. you are running for president. >> you told me i would have the floor. >> yes. i did. but you just suggested that i am perpetuating vitriol. what have i said today that is vitriolic? >> let me finish what i'm saying. what i said when i announced a year ago is that we are facing a time in our history that is more i think you will grow, is more vitriolic, more polarized, more poisonous than any time since the civil war. amplified by the social media algorithms and it is hard to see a way out of that.

if somebody doesn't come along and say i will not participate in that. even if people act crazy on both sides i will not be part of that craziness. >> but you are not addressing the question i raised. what we just heard from former president trump. and what he does in the racism, in the my sole judgeny. refusing to leave peacefully. through january 6th. up through that night, praising the people now convicted seditionists. do you see something different about that and the threat of that this election or not, if not, so be it. but that is what people are asking. >> this is when i say you are feeding into the vitriol. you are trying to get me to hate on president trump. >> i'm talking about what happened. they stormed the capitol. they tried to overthrow the certification and the results of a lawful election. and donald trump is out here now saying he has according to his lawyers license to kill, license to coup.

we will pardon those people. you say discussing that is vitriolic. no it is not. having a clear position on the peaceful transfer of power is a low bar. and the reason people are asking this is not just because they are trying to distract from your issues. but again, you are well familiar with your state. your campaign put out a statement saying basically the people of january 6th who stormed the capitol were stripped of their constitutional liberties. they were activists. you retracted it. and hired a republican operative who lied about january 6th. we are talking about whether there are rules and non- violence enforced in our country or not. and that was a violent storming of the capitol. can you unequivocally condemn that or do you leave this out here because of whatever your reasons? >> look, january 6th was a terrible time in our history. a terrible day. people committed terrible crimes. they committed violence against

police officers. they broke into the capitol. they stormed the capitol. they committed other crimes and a lot of people are in jail and they should be. so i condemn that. but i'm not going to campaign based upon drumming up or amplifying people's hatred toward each other. we need a way to find final ground. what you do when you are sitting in this chair every night is your job is to inflame that. and my job is to deescalate. >> i don't feel inflamed at all. >> i know. but that's what you are doing. i don't disagree with the things you are saying. i'm just not going to participate in it. that's all. >> right, but there is a theme here of what many people see as a false equivalence and we could go through all that. >> i didn't say there is a moral equivalence. all i said is both of them did

things that were wrong for our country. >> so to go back to the question. to button up the question. because you condemn january 6th and donald trump who you are running against, you would disagree with his talk of pardoning the seditionist ins. >> listen. in terms of pardoning people, i'm going to use, i don't know who i will use it on. i'm an attorney. i am going to look at every case that is brought before me and make a decision on it. >> i'm not trying. >> i'm not issuing a general pardon to any category of people. >> so when you look at his talk which is doing that. he talks about taking the vicks. >> are you trying to get him to convict him? >> i'm asking you about your views. would you be open to those pardons or not? >> here is my views. we have the worst inflation in a generation. we are embroiled in a war that

we should have never gotten involved with in ukraine. >> the question is about the pardons. would you. >> what do you mean? listen, i'm an attorney. i was a prosecutor. you were i think a legal aid attorney. i would never say who i'm going to pardon. >> but that is what he is doing and you are running against him. i'm asking him where you stand on that. >> i'm not going to do that. so that will sound to people like you are leaving that door open. do you want to leave that door open? >> i'm not answering it until i look at people's cases. all right, we got a lot of questions. we will pause and return with more after this break.

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political dynasty known for service, policy, and for tragedy. after all, jfk and rkf. many have served for government. rkfk is now running for president. we are continuing his interview now. we mentioned that you tragically lost family members to gun violence. do you have a view about how that affected you, affected your world view perhaps may or may not have affected your view of policy? because it is something that everyone knows about. it is a tragedy you endured that you grew up with. it is a more personal question. >> how my uncle and father's death affected how it affected me? >> yes. again, only if you care so share that.

does it affect your outlook, your world view? you are here now, 70 with your hold life running for office. but how does it affect you if you can share? >> i have to think about that. oddly, i should have an answer for that. because it is something you know that affected me greatly. when i think about my father and my uncle i think it wasn't their death so much that affected me but their approach to life. i have spent a lot of my life not only with them. but then, reading all the literature on them. i'm probably the only person in my family that has done that. and written histories about it. dissected their views on various issues and that has affected me tremendously. in terms of the trauma, it's

hard for me to say i oh, i was a drug addict 14 years and my addiction started right after my dad's death. but in my construction of events, i don't blame my father's death on my addiction. i feel like i was born like that with an empty hole inside of me looking for ways to fill it. >> do other people in your life feel that way because again, we don't know. but you could imagine a friend or a partner or a doctor saying if the events occurred right after, they might see the link. >> oh of course. and i have no way of really making that determination. i spend a lot of time in self- examination. i have been in recovery 40 years. i go to meetings every day. that's a process of constant

self-examination. i have come down on the side that trauma clearly affects things. i'm sure how i process the world. but i don't, looking back on that does not help me in terms of you know, how do i negotiate what i need to do today. and i think you know, the parts of my life that are most influential and determining how i behave on a day-to-day basis, how i get out of bed in the morning, make my bed, and go about, being kind to people. and judicious. and be the way i approach the world. i think is much more influenced by the role model my father gave me and uncle gave me rather than the way they died so the answer of your question is i don't really know how that trauma impacted me. i can't really separate that

from many other traumas i have had. and we have all had. everybody has traumas. i the moral center has affected me. >> and people can only imagine how difficult that might be and how do you make sense of it. buzz as a candidate. >> my mom used to say to us everybody takes their licks. and she would say listen, we had it very easy compared to a lot of people who lost their father or their uncle. we had a big loving family. the catholic faith which is fortifying for us. we had good guidance and access to education. to money. to resources. the great friends. there are kids in watts and

compton and harlem who lose their fathers who never see their fathers. their fathers their brothers to violence and they don't have the resources you do. so you know. to the extent i was ever tempted to feel pity for myself. my mother would abolish that immediately. >> it would be that because it was the kennedys, wherever you go. right now you are chooseing to come out and run for office and putting yourself in this position. but for many years, you couldn't have not put yourself in this position. you could just be living. but everywhere you go, whether you choose it or not, this is something that people know about you and your family. that it lives with you. that there is a difficulty to that. to being young. and to having this thrust upon you at a level where these were moments that the whole country

lived through. >> yeah. but, you know, i experienced that in a different way. i have people come up to me almost every day of my life and say i remember your dad. your dad inspired me. i remember where i was. it does remind me. sometimes i feel restless when people are telling me. i remember where i was when your father was killed or uncle was killed. but i know they mean it well. and i know that they love my family. and i feel honored that so many people feel motivated to come up to me and say that my father influenced in a good way. for me it was never a burden. it was advantageous.

>> if you run this campaign all year, and lose, you will have a achieved what and if you are on this campaign all year and against the current understanding of the odds become president, you will have achieved what? would you be willing to answer both of those? >> i intend to win. so i'm not going to answer the first question. >> spoken like a politician. >> so the answer i think if i win the presidency, everything in this country will change. i feel america has lost its way. even people i love like liberals who i grew up with and family members, i think they are so frightened of donald trump that they lost perspective about the values that make us a great nation. made the democratic party the embodiment of the highest ideals of our nation. and i have a very clear notion of what this country is

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i would never say in advance who i will pardon. >> but that is what he is doing and you are running against him. i'm asking you as a journalist where you stand on that. >> i'm not going to do that. >> so that will sound to people

like you are leaving that door open. do you want to leave the door open? >> i'm not answering until i look at people's cases. >> presidential candidate robert f. kennedy jr. speaking there. that is part of an interview we taped with him previously we have aired for the first time this hour. i'm joined by the washington monthly's margaret carlson. welcome. your thoughts on what you heard? >> i don't know how you kept your vitriol intact. tamped it down. because he is a maddening interview. but he is a broken man so you don't want to press him too hard. he looks vulnerable almost. because he is not answering your questions. he is deluded by a $200,000 poll that only he has seen that has him winning against either candidate. and so he doesn't answer then the question about being a

spoiler. and every would be spoiler thinks they are going to win. maybe not as adamantly as he does, but the way he maneuvered and he didn't maneuver well. but i came to feel sympathetic for him. >> huh. >> and you as well. you could have been harder i think than you were. the one place where you said, you got him in the corner saying do you really want to leave the door open to pardoning the january 6th insurrectionists and he said i wouldn't answer that. i'm an attorney. you gave him a chance and he didn't answer it. he doesn't have an answer. the answer is he wouldn't pardon them. but he doesn't want to say that because he has twisted his mind thinking he might pardon them. i don't know. did you know where he stood

after that? >> i think when you deal with something as clear as the convicted sedition. we are talking about the proud boys convicted of sedition. yes. i think it is legally extreme to say that the door is open to that. that is something. people can have their reaction as you know to politicians and people in public life. everyone can have their emotional reaction. the biden campaign is not ignoring or turning him off. they are trying to figure out how to deal with someone with the kennedy name who could be a spoiler. here is that exchange again. take a look. >> i would beat both president trump and president biden if the other guy leaves. >> isn't that a big if? you are talking about the incumbent president of the united states. >> under this criteria,

president biden is the spoiler. because he cannot win. he can't win if i stay in. he does worse if i leave. >> you are comparing hypothetical polls to the guy who won the presidency. >> margaret, your thought on the way he is dealing with this which as we showed is in contradiction with his long standing claims advocating for democrats and against people who are doing what he is doing now. like nader. >> he didn't have an answer for it except his polls show him winning. you know. against either one of them. and against biden. and he didn't come up with a distinction between supporting hillary against trump, but not supporting biden against trump. or, why acre of experience on trump as president and now trump as a full time defendant.

and he never admits who trump is. and why he has made that switch. >> yeah. we also have the new york times headline here, rfk jr. says doctors found a quote dead worm in his brain. i have cognitive problems he said in a 2012 deposition. short and long term memory loss that affects me. i should mention this article came out after we taped this interview which is new which we aired for the first time. but that kind of talk, while difficult, again, you mentioned being empathetic to people's situations, but that talk wouldn't seem to help a candidate politically. >> seems like the new york post headline. dead worm in brain of candidate. you know. you don't know what to say to

it. it is such a bizarre thing. and when i first read it, it was all part of a deposition in which he was trying not to pay any money to his soon to be ex- wife. so, he came up with a lot of different things, the worm in the brain? it's like, you know, stranger than fiction. and i don't know what he will say to that. i guess he hasn't yet been confronted with that. >> right. the article crossed after we taped this. but it is certainly not again, it is not helpful politically and it speaks to sort of his, some of his discourse at how different it is. >> it might explain some things. a worm in the brain. >> hm. we almost have a new tradition around here of having you onto be the journalist, the fact

checker on news worthy interviews. we'll see you again. thank you margaret. >> thanks ari. i want to mention for everyone that full interview with robert f. kennedy is also now online. just go to msnbc.com/ari. you can see what we aired tonight and the entire interview if you want to view it. up next, congress, chaos and republican failure. we have that update next. publi we have that update next. cidp. cidp derails. let's be honest... all: cidp sucks! voices of people with cidp: but living with cidp doesn't have to. when you sign up at shiningthroughcidp.com, you'll find inspiration in real patient stories, helpful tips, reliable information, and more. cidp can be tough. but finding hope just got a little easier. sign up at shiningthroughcidp.com. all: be heard. be hopeful. be you.

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declaring the office speaker of the house of representatives to be vacant. >> booing and losing. that has been the case for republicans. an update tonight. marjorie taylor greene filed that motion to try to oust speaker they replaced. it is repettive. but it is new in the sense that is what went down in congress tonight and they lost. the house overwhelmingly killing that motion by tabling it. johnson got help from democrats. that is kind of interesting. this is a republican speaker. we hear about divided partisanship. and if there weren't so much else going on, this might play as a bigger deal. an overwhelming bipartisan majority saying not that they love him, but that they, well, don't love mtg as much as him or really dislike her depending on who you ask. democrats helping republicans keep the status quo. the second time in seven months

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