full-scale invasion and then it becomes this kind of question by the biden administration, what is a full-scale invasion of rafah? that may be where we end up, a murky metal here we are, frankly, this is a slow-motion invasion that doesn't have the trauma of what we saw in gaza city and other parts of the gaza strip. in any case, though, i think we moved into a new phase where the u.s. has finally said, look, that is it. we are not going to provide you with the weapons to drop bombs on civilian populations. we are not going to provide you with the small arms to do this. the question is does that salvage a cease-fire in the coming days or not or do we go into a tenuous status quo where everyone interpretation of what is happening is different ? >> there are already people being told to evacuate from different parts of rafah to others, leaving their meager possessions behind in these camps and relocating. that is all in on this wednesday night. alex wagner tonight starts now. good evening, alex. it was december of 2022

when the justice department first announced and historic indictment of a well-known american billionaire and political figure. >> former billionaire sam bankman fried under arrest and facing charges. >> was once hailed as the king of crypto. today, sam bankman fried, founder and former ceo of exchange ftx is facing criminal indictments and a wave of civil complaints. >> the sam bankman fried indictment, a huge, complex case involving billions of dollars in fraud complicated financial instruments, international currency exchanges and a whole lot more. it was a first of its kind case for the justice department. and, for the judicial system that would hear that case. and, it took 10 months for that case, with all of its myriad complexities, to go to trial. sam bankman-fried was indicted

in the month of december by the following october, he was sitting in a courtroom. as it turns out, that is a fairly standard amount of time for major cases. in october of 2017, former trump campaign manager paul manafort was arrested and charged by robert mueller for money laundering and failing to register as a foreign agent. robert mueller followed that with tax and bank fraud charges in virginia a few mins later. two high-stakes cases involving the former campaign manager of a sitting u.s. president but even with all of that, the time for paul manafort's initial arrest to the first day of his first trial in virginia was just nine months. paul manafort was arrested in october and by the following july, he was sitting in a courtroom facing a jury of his peers. both keepers leader stuart

rhodes was charged by the justice department for carrying out a seditious conspiracy against the united states on january 6, 2021. he was arrested in january of 2022. by that october, his trial had begun. and, that was not an easy case for the prosecution, by any means. seditious conspiracy charges have only been brought a handful of times in our nations history and to mixed results at trial. but, by november of 2022 just 11 months after the justice department first brought those charges, stuart rhodes was convicted. >> these convictions were the result of tireless work by justice department agents, attorneys, analysts, support staff, beginning of january, 2021, with a methodical collection of evidence and continuing through the presentation of that evidence during the seven week trial that began in october of 2022. their skill and dedication are in the very best tradition of the justice department and we

are all extremely grateful to them. >> 11 months from arrest to conviction. today, it has officially been 11 months since donald trump was indicted by the justice department on 37 counts related to his alleged mishandling of classified documents at his florida beach club, mar-a-lago, 11 months today. previous high profile criminal cases, highly complex cases, novel cases, cases involving trunk allies and his loyal followers, they have gone to trial in nine or 10 months. by 11 months, some of them had already reached a jury verdict. here we are, 11 months out for trump's arrest in the classified documents case and we still have no idea when it will actually go to trial. case was originally scheduled to go to trial later this month and you been waiting for the judge in that case to set a new

trial date, for more than two months. last night, judge aileen canon, and setting instead of setting that new date delayed the trial indefinitely. this is from the order released yesterday. "the court has evaluated the statutory factors set forth in the speedy trial act, including the public interest in the efficient administration of justice. upon such review, the court finds the ends of justice served by this continuance outweigh the best interest of the public and defendants in a speedy trial." translation, speedy trial be damped, i'm pumping the brakes. mark this trial in your calendars for the 57th of never . that also means that now both of trump's federal criminal cases are indefinitely delayed. remember, the supreme court has put trump's federal election interference case on ice while we await a ruling on whether trump campaign presidential

immunity from criminal prosecution. tomorrow, the court is expected to issue new will in some cases it heard this term but nobody really expects the justices to issue a final ruling on trump's immunity claim yet and also the court can wait another two months, if it decides to. if it issues a final ruling at all. there were several indications from several conservative justices that they would like to take the presidential immunity case back to the lower courts for further review, which would mean even more delays. now, today, get another one of trump's criminal cases is facing a potentially indefinite delay. that would be fulton county district attorney fani willis conspiracy case against trump and 14 codefendants. that case was heading to trial and one of trump's codefendants tried to get to the a will is disqualified because of a romantic relationship with her lead prosecutor. in march, judge scott mcafee allowed the a willis and her staff to remain on the case as long as her lead prosecutor resigned. whitcomb he did. the judgment of the door open for trump and his codefendants

to appeal and this morning, the georgia state appeals court said it will consider that appeal, meaning justice delayed. again, again, again. for the past three weeks in new york city, the nation has seen it is possible for the former president to sit for a criminal trial during an election year, that the system of justice can in fact manager the novelty of the first american president sitting trial just like anyone else. that the links in his other cases raise serious questions about whether donald trump's status as a former president and a current presidential candidate are slowing the wheels of justice, at precisely the moment when his status as a kind president candidate should be the reason for a swift resolution to these cases. the american judicial system can move with relative alacrity on complex financial crimes and seditious conspiracies and for an election interference. so, why not now?

joining me now is melissa murray, law professor at nyu, and co-author of the recent book "the trump indictments: the historic charging document with commentary." also with me is anna bauer, quartz correspondent and legal fellow for "law fair." melissa, it doesn't seem like a coincidence that all of the trump trials have been delayed, with the exception of new york. can you disabuse me of the notion that somehow these judges are given preferential treatment? >> i know donald trump likes to say that he has been treated poorly relative to other defendants. certainly, no other defendant in american has been allowed to play out the system in the way that he has. the immunity case, i think is a really great example. as you say, he is running for president, which means that if he is actually entitled to criminal immunity, he would want to know that right now, rather than later with the sword of damocles of criminal

liability over his head. instead, he seems perfectly happy to let the supreme court take its sweet time in deciding this issue. you are right, i think it is very unlikely we will get a decision from the court tomorrow. the situation in which i think is similar. that was a case that really was moving and had considerable momentum. remember, in september and early october, we saw genitalis plead guilty, we saw sidney powell plead guilty, we saw kenneth cheseboro plead guilty. suddenly nathan weighed and fani willis are having a relationship. it is not typically the ethics what we focus on.

usually we are concerned where a prosecutor has a relationship with a judge or a juror or a witness. here, she has a relationship with someone else on her team. but the best optics, certainly, but not something that necessarily prejudices the defendant. scott mcafee, the judge, conceded that when he wrote his order. but, it stopped this dead in its tracks while we watch the spectacle of that or motion and now we see that it is going to be a spectacle once again, as it goes up on appeal. >> i know you have been following the georgia case, as well as all the other cases. is the expedition, i mean, judge mcafee has said he wants to keep the train on the track while the appeals process plays out. is that possible? >> i think it is possible. there are a number of pending motions that judge mcafee has yet to hold hearings on or has yet to rule on. i think that he plans to make issue rulings on those motions, keep the train rolling in that respect. where things get thorny is when it comes to setting a trial date, maybe starting to impanel a jury. in fulton county, we expect that is going to take a very long time to impanel a jury. there is another rico case that is ongoing that took over a

year to impanel a jury. there are things that i think maybe you will be hesitant to do, such as starting any kind of actual trial proceedings because he likely does not have jurisdiction due to inner judgment of conviction and is going to be very concerned that even if the court of appeals doesn't stay or put things on pause because trump's team can still ask the court of appeals to put things on pause , independent of what judge mcafee wants to do, but even if they allow him to keep doing some of these pretrial matters, he just simply doesn't have jurisdiction to actually enter a judgment of conviction. >> his hands are effectively tied and there is no trial date right now. >> there is no trial date right now. i do want to suggest, though, there is a possibility that we could get some sentence other than trump in fulton county who are tried potentially before the election or at least before 2025. keep in mind that this motion, excuse me, this appeal

that was taken up by the georgia court of appeals only involves a few of the defendants who joined the motion to disqualify. there are other defendants who didn't join it and so, ostensibly, waive their right to make this motion to disqualify because they missed the deadline. and, some of those defendants, including people like john eastman, have said that they want to be tried before 2025. i don't want to be tried with donald trump. it is possible that judge mcafee could separate out those defendants. could have a smaller grouping of people who are tried and that is important because fulton county prosecutors have said they want to bring all the evidence that they would against trump against all of these other defendants as well. >> that would be a sneak preview of the case the argument against trump, which doesn't necessarily serve the prosecutions interest. we have not talked about florida. we cannot talk about judge aileen canon. the listed reasons for delay, i'm sorry to sound so incredulous but it is somewhat incredible. substantive pretrial motions, discovery disputes, and

classified document issues, many of which present novel and difficult questions are the reason that judge aileen canon can't even set a date for this trial. >> to be fair to judge aileen canon, listeners at home, don't pillory me for this. classified information you have to do through herculean evidentiary issues. we have a lot of people who have had trials based on their retention of classified information and if you are now sitting in the penitentiaries because of it. it is the case that individuals can be held accountable and there is a timetable that is relatively expeditious while also respecting the rest of the defendant to a fair trial. i don't give her a pass on this. it seems, and i think some who are cynical would say that it seems like judge aileen canon is kind of in the bag for donald trump, that she has taken issues most judges would have decided in a different fashion and she has given them a conscientious hearing on.

relative, relatively anodyne. >> that is generous. conscientious, in person hearings for some fairly, not an official legal term, >> in person hearings for things other judges would have decided on the papers very quickly. in the interest of allowing the defendant to have his essay but also in the interest of efficiency. she has given everything, every command, even ones that are specious to the point of being stupid a fair hearing and a lot of attention. i think at this point in time, we have already seen judge aileen canon make missteps. we saw her make mistakes before this case was assigned to. she was rebuked by the 11th circuit. that sort of shaded how people approached her and looked at her doing this. maybe she is just being incredibly tentative and careful because she knows everyone is watching. at some point, you have to say, like, come on. this isn't moving at all.

it's the most open and shut case. >> people have retained classified doctrines before. most of them plead out because it is obvious what they did. the fact of the matter, this has been tried before, there is some protocol. this is not even setting a date. >> again, she is someone who doesn't have a lot of experience doing criminal trials. she was an appellate lawyer, did some work when she was in the u.s. attorney's office, she's only had about four criminal trials, they are mostly anodyne,, during affair. this is more complicated. but, again, she seems to be living at a very languid case, like she has all the time in the world, when in fact, we don't. i think it is worth thinking about. andrew and i talk about this in our book. this is the open and shut case. this is the easy one. >> anna, the one, the only game in town is the manhattan case. we know that stormy daniels is coming back for cross- examination tomorrow. you have been following this religiously, you've been even in the room or in the overflow

room. we have an expedition for what we will see tomorrow? think i think the prosecutions that they want to wrap up their case in the next week and half now. what is your expedition for the short term? >> we ended with this cross- examination of stormy daniels that was attacking her potential bias or motives against donald trump. and, we also know that the defense has said that they want to train her as an extortionist. i want to portray trump as being the victim of some kind of extortion plot in which stormy daniels was trying to get money from him and basically kind of coerce him into or threaten him into biting her story, which he claimed as false. we ended with getting into some more examination, moving away from attentional bias or motive and into this, you know, portraying her as an extortionist. we have talked before about wine this extortion defense is not something that is relevant to the charges. but, i think we

are going to get more of that. i think the cross-examination is very likely to be quite long. and, i don't think we are near the end yet because the defense counsel has said from the beginning in opening statements that their whole case seems to kind of rely on taking down the credibility of michael cohen and stormy daniels. then, yes, we do think that the prosecution, based on what they represented in court, whether the next two weeks could wrap up, they said that could take potentially a little bit longer. and there's also the defense that has the opportunity to call witnesses. my understanding is that they do not seem to have many witnesses that they intend to call. >> i wonder why that is. >> i believe that there's maybe one expert witness that they wanted to call. i'm not sure if they will, related to some of the campaign- finance elements of the case. so, we will see. and then of course there is the big question of whether or not

donald trump himself will take the stand. >> that is the million-dollar question. melissa murray, anna bauer, thank you so much for your expertise and judicious in this this evening. coming up, congresswoman marjorie taylor greene's flameout as she tries to out speaker mike johnson. what does it mean for the madness in the house? first, here is donald trump breaking ground with a golden shuffle in 2018. the shuffle and the whole that trump done that day are now back in the news and not in a good way. that is next. next. limu, someone needs to customize and save hundreds on car insurance with liberty mutual. let's fly! (inaudible sounds) chief! doug. (inaudible sounds) ooooo ah. (elevator doors opening) (inaudible sounds) i thought you were right behind me. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, ♪

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in wisconsin, the president posting about a $10 billion investment from an electronics junk based in taiwan. >> this is the eighth wonder of the world. >> this is 20 million feet, this will be one of the largest jobs ever in the world. >> in 2018, donald trump travel to the village of mount pleasant in wisconsin where he used a literal golden shovel to break ground on what he said would be the eighth wonder of the world. the project trump was talking was a deal with a taiwan on electronics company called foxconn. foxconn promised to make a massive lcd screen manufacturing plant, investing in the dollars of their own money to do so and creating

what they and trump doubt it would be 13,000 jobs. in exchange, the state government of wisconsin was prepared to give foxconn $3 billion in tax breaks and incentives, which, if paid out, would have been the largest tax incentives given to a foreign company in u.s. history. with the promise of that money jobs, the local government of mount pleasant practically destroyed itself trying to make this plant a reality. >> to make the plant possible, mount pleasant has ended up borrowing money to buy up land. >> mount pleasant is on track to spend close to $900 million in land acquisition and infrastructure. that is 38 times our annual budget. >> to clear room for the giant factory, the local government spend so much money buying up that land that the town itself had its credit rating downgraded. 100 homes and farms were bulldozed to make room for this plant. >> this is prairie view drive.

this growth. used to lead into an entire neighborhood of houses. foxconn is a building, they have been cleared out, and those residents are asking, what it worth it? tim mahoney built her custom home in the subdivision with a dozen neighbors. >> the whole process has been somewhat of a nightmare. >> reporter: now, mahoney's is the last house standing. her neighbors took offers from the village government to move out and put those their homes. she says she received a global appraisal so she stood her ground. >> this whole project was a scam. >> there is a real fear that we have been taken for a ride. our only hope is that they built something. >> unfortunately, the residents of wisconsin were taken for a ride. foxconn did build a small factory in the scene but it only employs about 1000 people. the massive 20 million foot factory with 13,000 jobs never materialized. today, six years after getting

sold a bill of goods by donald trump and his golden shovel, racing, wisconsin got a new deal. >> foxconn turned out to be just that, a con. >> today, president biden was in racing to announce a $3.3 billion investment by microsoft to build a new artificial intelligence data center in racing. the project is expected to create more than 2000 union construction jobs and another 2000 permanent data center jobs, jobs for which microsoft is partnering with local technical colleges to train the local workforce. this new data center will be built on the same land that locals cleared for donald trump's foxconn plant. president biden is quite literally fixing donald trump's broken promises . the question now is the will voters notice ? former white house press secretary robert gibbs and former senator claire mccaskill

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for the past few months, president biden has traveled across the country, attempting to spread the word about his major domestic policy achievements, achievements which amounts to about $1.6 trillion in economic investment, including infrastructure projects and climate mitigation measures. this is all part of an effort to counter what the white house calls "trump amnesia," where voters give donald trump more credit for the u.s. economy than he is due, which apparently is a very real thing, as evidenced by a new political poll today showing folders give donald trump almost as much credit as biden for advancing infrastructure spending. voters seem to know very little about what biden has signed into law the majority of respondents said they haven't seen, read, or heard anything about three of biden's four major domestic policy successes. joining me now to discuss his former white house press secretary under president obama, robert gibbs, and former u.s. senator, claire mccaskill. thank you for being here, both. clear, is it that less than 17% of this money has actually been spent, is that the problem, americans aren't feeling it? that seems to be a two-pronged issue. by the time it is spent, it could be a second trump administration. how does biden counter this

problem? >> he has to go granular and he has to do it in the states that matter and he has to pull out those project. i think we forget sometimes in the national media seen how important local news is. and, when a bridge is getting fixed and a road is being paved for where there is a problematic problem with broadband, if there is a new factory being built, that really resonates at the local level. and, that is what they have to focus on. but, really what he's fighting, and my friend, mr. gibbs, i think will be an expert on this, is people are most likely to give the candidate they like credit for everything and the candidate they don't like blame for every problem there is in the world. that is what he's fighting here. he's fighting that we are a very divided nation right now and it's very hard for decalcified support that has, that support he has, it's very hard for them to actually give

credit to biden, which he deserves. all trump did was talk about infrastructure and a ball, he didn't do any of it. >> before getting to this segment, robert, we played the foxconn con job, where donald trump is out there with a golden shovel and almost nothing materialized from it and here is biden literally fixing the problem. it is endlessly frustrating for anybody who cares about the truth to watch this unfold and not have the person who is fixing things get the credit for it. >> undoubtedly. i feel like i am watching a rerun of 2009 and 2010, with the recovery act. i think, let me build a little bit on what clara said. let's go to the local newscasts. it is great in wisconsin, you will see a lot of the powerful

lead-in that you had tonight, alex. what i want the biden campaign to do, and i know they are in the process of doing this and have seen some of it already, i want during the 5:00 newscast locally, the 5:30 newscast, the 6:00 newscast, the 11:00 newscast, i want to see a paid political ad, i want them to see a minute long emotional story that you just unwound of what happened when a town mortgaged future in the hopes of something better, only to be jolted and now to have that story and in a positive way. you need emotion and you need great for a political ad to plead in and this has every bit of it. it is not going to be one thing that joe biden does. he's going to have to get on air force one and tell people about it. they are going to have to spend a lot of money on it. he will have to knock on doors and talk to people about it. the good news is they really, it's going to matter in six places or seven places at most. we know it is a defined universe and they can do that. they are raising a record amount of money and they are likely to have to spend a record amount of money to get

people to understand what they have done legislatively. >> i hate to be like the doomsayers here but the reality of spending this far is it hasn't moved the needle for biden. on as alone, biden spent $21.8 million in march. trump spent 3.7 million. it does not seem to have moved the needle and he spending seven times as much, claire. >> well, he's in a better place today than he was 60 days ago. and he is going to continue. i just saw today, wisconsin had some decent numbers out of wisconsin. maybe it is the impact of him coming in to fix up the lies and the con job that trump participate in. there is a cumulative effect. keep in mind that polling is all about trends. it's not about one poll or another poll. it is about trends. just because he hasn't moved the needle doesn't mean he won't, especially in places like pennsylvania and ohio and wisconsin and michigan and nevada and arizona. those states, where he really has to make sure. georgia,

where he really has to make sure that he grabs those electoral votes, just like he did last time. >> i want to get your thoughts, robert, unlike how biden is messaging this. he was asked on cnn this evening if he was worried that he was running out of time to turn around consumer confidence and biden's response was we already turned it around. he saw the michigan survey, 65% of the american people believe they are in good shape economically. they think the nation is not in good shape but they are personally in good shape. the polling data has been wrong all along. what do you think that approach? >> i think he has part of it right. i think you can tell a story about the fact that, yes, the numbers have moved, yes the numbers are different but i always want to hear him say we know prices are still too high. we know there's more work to do. and, we are here to do it and i think sometimes, and this

happens with presidents, i saw this with the president i worked for, you sometimes see it with president biden as well, they are anxious to tell you that everything is better. they want to go through the statistics. lord knows president obama did ad nauseam on statistics. people don't live necessarily through the michigan consumer survey. they live through how much banks are on aisle 12, right? so, i want to hear him talk about the fact that there is still work to be done. that is a second term. i want him to feel the pain, feel your pain and not just wish it away and think that i can talk the economy and or talk people's pocketbook issues and being other than they may be. >> today, claire, the president , to that end, confirmed that u.s. bombs killed civilians in gaza and said that u.s. will not supply bombs, weapons for israel to attack ruffin. do you think that is a meaningful, it appears to be a meaningful statement. do you think it puts him in a

better place with a certain section of the electorate? >> first of all, it was what strong presidents do. it's what strong leaders do. i think him exuding strength at this point is incredibly important. and, what he said to benjamin netanyahu is stop it. there is a different way for you to pursue the horrific terrorists that invaded your country and committed atrocities against israeli innocent citizens and children. and, i think that is what he did today. i think it is very important. and, i think robert is right. i don't think the president should keep saying everything is okay in the economy. he needs to say i'm going to go after these big food conglomerates the same way i would after big pharma. i got your insulin down to $35.00 a month, i'm going to do the same thing with food corporations that are

profiteering off your backs. >> robert gibbs, thank you for your time. the great claire mccaskill, i have one more question for you. please stick around, we have one more topic to discuss this evening. still ahead, marjorie taylor greene finally made good on her promise to oust >> johnson. it failed immediately and spectacularly. we will talk about what one republican calls leader mr. fire in congress. re in congres

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speaker of the house of representatives to be vacant. this is the single party for the american people watching. >> the gentle lady will suspend. >> marjorie taylor greene stood on the house for today to do what she has been threatening to do for weeks, to try to oust speaker mike johnson. this is how her republican colleagues responded. >> stunts like this does not unify our conference. we will not be detected by marjorie taylor greene. >> do you think might be telegram should be punished question >> one dumpster fire at a time. >> one to mr. fire at a time. ardrey kell the greens motion to vacate field in a 359-43 vote with over three quarters of the democratic caucus voting against it. after the vote, speaker mike johnson did but i guess it's a

victory lap. >> joining me now is brendan burke, msnbc political analyst and former press secretary to the house speaker, john benard. brendan, marjorie taylor greene versus the uniparty, who is winning question >> clearly the uniparty . i think this was a really important vote for the house. for a really long time, we have been paying way too much attention to the unserious people like marjorie taylor greene. i think for once, not just the republicans or the democrats, the institution stood up for itself a little bit and said we are not going to do this anymore. when the threat to take out the speaker goes away, i think the calculus in the house is very,

very different. even when it wasn't such a life issue, i could tell you speakers were always thinking about this, at least the last four republican speakers were always thinking about this. i think this is a really important moment. we are not in the clear by any stretch. i don't think this is the last we have seen of marjorie taylor greene. but, a really positive step, i think for the house. >> just to be clear, clear, democrats are the ones that saved speaker johnson here. moments, hours before they saved him, he was out of their spinning conspiracies about election fraud and saying that you should be concerned that illegal aliens might be voting in 2024. this guy is not a centrist rockefeller republican. my question is, should democrats have extracted more of a price ? >> i think rendon is right that this was good for the institution. i don't think we can say marjorie taylor greene lost. what they have turned their party into is a performative show. and, let's be honest, she was jealous of lauren boehbert. she wanted that attention. that is what she thrives on, that is the only thing she cares about. she knows that the base of the

republican party is not interested in solving any problems. they are more interested in tearing down government. so, that is what she was doing today. she was putting on a show and, guess what, she will raise a boatload of money over the next 24 hours from the people who think donald trump is the second coming. >> to that end, and to your point earlier, brandon, donald trump posted on true social today "i absolutely love marjorie taylor greene. however, right now, republicans have to be fighting the radical left democrats. the majority of one slowly growing to three or four, we are not in a position to vote on a mission position to vacate. at some point we may very well be that this is not the time to" if you are mike janssen, or conflict with friends like these, who needs enemies? not even taking a motion to vacate off the table. >> kevin mccarthy found that out. kevin mccarthy did everything

he thought he could to keep cold front in a good place and it didn't save him. we should appreciate, to your point, that the request giving him, johnson lost the same number of votes as kevin mccarthy did. the obvious dynamic here is democrats were there. i think the question that we all need to be thinking about is if marjorie taylor greene does this again a week from now or two weeks from now or a month from now, how long are democrats going to be able to saving him ? i think they got something from this the first time, it was bringing up ukraine aid. there will be a lot of things mike johnson will need to do over the next few months to try to get back in good graces with conservatives. this is a guy she wants to be speaker again if republicans win back the house. he will have to do something to mend some fences. this things will probably come at the cost of goodwill with democrats. i think he will probably

survive this congress but it is going to become very unpopular in that caucus and i don't know how much longer hakeem jeffries will be able to stand up in front of his own to members and say we have to vote again to save mike johnson. if she keeps doing this, she can do this every single day if she wants to. >> so far, he has stayed in his job longer than a fruit fly is alive. we will have to leave it there, thank you for your time tonight. i really appreciate you. still ahead tonight, one of our presidential candidates has admitted to suffering from primitive problems, including memory loss, that is not perhaps you think it is and the reason is almost certainly not what you think it is. we will talk about brain worms, next. ms, next. ief of allergies with nasal congestion, so you can breathe better. claritin plus decongestant. live claritin clear®.

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strike here is the headline. rfk junior says doctors found a dead worm in his brain. the new york times reports that in the 2012 divorce deposition rfk junior argued that he had cognitive problems that diminished is earning potential. as proof he described a time in 2010 when doctors found a worm that got into his brain and ate a portion of it and died. kennedy has claimed to suffer

from short and long-term memory loss, perhaps because of that brain parasite or mercury poisoning as well as atrial fibrillation and hepatitis c. joining me now is the person who broke the story. the journalist that brings us the word, brain worm, as the word of the day tonight. can we talk about this worm? is it still in his head and how much do we think it is potentially impairing him? >> it is still in his brain, it is dead and it is calcified. once you have a worm in your brain and it dies, it does not go anywhere. it was probably alive for several years and he did not know it. normally what happens when a worm lives in your brain, the brain is good at dealing with it. it copes with it. when the worm starts to die, the worm causes inflammation and that is when the problems start. normally when people have this condition, they show up at the hospital with seizures.

so it was interesting that in 2010, he's suffering from severe long and short-term memory loss and he goes and finds out he may have a brain tumor. his uncle, teddy, died of brain cancer the year before. he also got a test done for mercury poisoning. i will get to that in a minute, but he goes to the hospital and gets scans on his brain and the top surgeons in the country are sent to the scan. he knows who they are, because they just dealt with ted kennedy and several of them concluded he had a brain tumor. he was immediately scheduled for surgery at duke university by the same doctor that operated on teddy kennedy and then out of the blue he gets a call from a doctorate newyork-presbyterian and that doctor said, look, i don't think you have a brain tumor, i think you have a

parasite in your head and i want you to come in. so he went with that rather than the brain surgery. >> wouldn't we all rather have a brain in her head -- have a worm in our head than a brain tumor? >> reporter: they determined it was a worm. he didn't know what type, but the experts i talked to said it was a tapeworm in his head. the symptoms are not the memory loss he was describing. it turns out the mercury poisoning is likely the cause of the memory loss, which is another whole thing. he had mercury poisoning, which is crazy. >> he is obsessed with mercury. >> reporter: obsessed with mercury and was also an environmentalist for years and dealt with mercury in fish. he told me he was eating a heavy diet of tunafish, sushi tuna and perch. >> it is not an

environmentalist diet. health and also overfishing. >> reporter: i asked about that and he said i love tuna fish sandwiches, so he was eating them all the time. he got mercury poisoning. you can never say for sure, but i think that after talking to a number of experts, that is what caused the memory loss and then you asked a really good question, which is how does this come into play now and the hard part is, we do not know. he would not release his medical records to the new york times, so we are relying on him as we are with the other presidential candidates for the state of their health. it is really hard, because he says he has fully recovered. we don't know and he has other conditions. atrial fibrillation, he suffered from that for decades. he said he has not had an incident in more than a decade. that is a condition that rarely goes away. it can go away. anything can happen --

>> sure, but it could also not go away. >> relying on him as a narrator and also i talked to doctors who said you can have a heart event and not even know it. >> at this point he is tweeting, i could eat five more brain worms and still be trump and biden in a debate. i felt confident even with a six worm handicap. i understand why he would want to make light of it, but it is a serious issue with him running for president. >> he has three neurological conditions, two of which we knew nothing about until today. brain worm, the mercury poisoning and separately a neural condition. >> with your interactions with kennedy and the campaign, it feels like what you have reported is they have breast of this aside. >> reporter: he did give me an interview and we talked about it, but his answer to everything was this happened and it is all good now. then when i followed up he would not engage on releasing

medical records. >> the only reason you know about this is from a deposition? >> right, i found this through my reporting. >> yet here we are, one of three presidential candidates. a man with a huge amount of power in the coming race to make it or break it one way or another. >> and a really important point, he is now on several ballots in the country, looking to gain access to pretty much every state and he is marching toward that, so he will be a deciding factor, one way or the other in the election. it is a very consequential individual, in my view, in the upcoming presidential race. >> not just in your view. widely held. incredible reporting as usual. now you are on the brain worm beat. thank you for making the time. that is our show tonight. now it is time for the last word. good evening, jonathan.